On Happiness...

V.S.


A said: "Hapiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony." Gandhi

L said: Paraphrase: "Happiness is what happens in those brief moments when you desire absolutely nothing. The moment desire/want comes back as a conscious thought, you believe you could only be happier *after* those desires get fulfilled. As a result, your state of happiness disappears in a flash and your happiness now becomes dependent on some particular event happening. Only those rare few who want absolutely nothing, not even happiness itself, are the ones that already are *truly* happy."

Adyashanti said it so much more elequently....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpHBgWqchxM

Worth watching.. I think you may really like some of his videos :-)

A said: Happiness to me is a status quo, a sense of gratitude. Some situations, periods or things sometimes make me not happy, but it's temporary.

L said: So long as one's happiness is dependent on external things, lasting happiness can't possibly be reached. I can say with high certainty that the happiest day of my entire life so far was a few years ago when for a brief 3 or 4 minutes max, I fell into a state of not needing absolutely anything ... not even happiness itself. It's hard to put this into words, but never had I experienced such a state of bliss.

D said: This little discussion has given me some thought on the subject of happiness. Here is my two cents worth:

It is my contention that it is quite possible that as human, we are not meant to be "Happy", if your definition of happiness is to want for nothing. Sounds like this is rather unattainable and thus by definition, abnormal. Maybe 'Happiness' is a decision. A decision in the face of adversity which when we overcome it, causes confidence and satisfaction. I think back and the times I was truly happiest were the times I fought through life's 'adventures'. Humans thrive when times are tough. We have to band together, all for one and one for all. When we lack for nothing, we become petty and bicker over nothing and try to control each other with silly rules. We in essence become not a pretty site. So, my thought is to celebrate the toughness of life. Enjoy adversity. Being 'happy' isn't all it is cracked up to be. Love yourself, and forgive. Happiness will take care of itself.

L said: Hi D,

Good contemplations :) Here's my thoughts on your thoughts...

My definition of happiness being a state of not having any desires is actually a little misleading. I should have instead described it as 'a state of bliss, freedom and great peace' which is actually quite different from happiness as most people would think of it. I tried calling it “*true* happiness”, but this needs further defining.

Such a state (of bliss) is NOT a state of pleasure, or a state of giddiness, euphoria (see the 'happy' girl with the ice cream). It transcends happiness. It is above it because it is a superior experience, one of a higher quality and one that has the real possibility of [eventually] being long lasting. This is because it can only come from within; whereas happiness in the traditional Western sense is more like a roller coaster ride. One moment you are happy (I have an ice cream!), the next you are sad (it's all gone, I want more!). It comes and goes.

Happiness when defined as a states of emotional euphoria, pleasure can not be long lasting because these do not come from within, they are re-actions to external events, people or experiences. When those external things go away or change, your happiness goes with it, and with this come various degrees of suffering. This underscores the maxim that happiness and suffering come hand in hand and one can not have one without the other. What is possible however, is to transcend this cycle and attain (through certain practices) a lasting sense of bliss, that is in fact superior to happiness.

The [subconciously] confusing part is that we sure appear to feel 'happy' from eating an ice cream, or kissing a lover, or getting a promotion, so how can these things not be the source of happiness? One way to prove this, is because if any one thing could bring you happiness, then surely 2 of the same thing could make you twice as happy, right? Sure you say. I you give me a million dollars, 2 million would be even better. But after I give you 10 billion dollars, you start to realize that really that's enough and another 10 million really wouldn't make you that much happier. A simpler example can be provided with ice cream. You desire an ice cream. You get an ice cream. You feel so happy eating it. I give you another ice cream, and you still feel a good amount of pleasure eating the ice cream... but by the time I force you to eat the 5th ice cream you start feeling kind of sick, so it then becomes obvious that your happiness never came from the ice cream - how could it?! The happiness came from the brief moment of time you were eating the ice cream when you wanted nothing else! During the 5th ice cream, that changed, you *WANTED* to stop eating it, but you couldn't, hence you felt unhappy (and sick to your stomach) ;-)

Happiness can not be decision. You can decide all you want to be happy, but it is not that simple. All humans by nature desire to be happy, and thus if it were as simple as deciding it, most of us would be happy most of the time - but when observed closely, such is not the reality of the vast majority of humanity. This is again because such happiness are in part re-actions to the external and we do not control the external (as much as we would all like to!). In fact we fight this daily. We suffer because we constantly want things to occur and be like our ideals, but that is an obvious impossibility.

I am not sure I believe that you were happiest when "fighting through life's adventures". No form of fighting, or struggling, as your statement seems to suggest is related to even the Western definition of happiness. I would however believe that you felt happy during *the brief moments* when each struggle ended and no new desires/needs/wants entered your mind. If you think back, perhaps these moments lasted for a few minutes, hours or at most a few days.

'The want for nothing' is still a want. Not wanting anything, is what brings about bliss. "Confidence and satisfaction" are respectively the path to Ego and Pleasure, which lead to degrees of suffering, and which are facets of Western definitions of happiness, though we often do not see the relationship between the two (happiness & suffering). Again, this is why this form of happiness is of lesser quality, because it is never long lasting and always ends in degrees of suffering.

"When we lack for nothing, we become petty and bicker of nothing and try to control...etc". If you lack nothing, then you must already have everything you want. During such moments, your mind becomes quiet and begins to enter into a peaceful blissful state; however if it is too brief, you may miss it. What you are describing is more like a state of boredom or disinterest due to recent or past negative experiences, and we act in the way you described. This is actually very far away from the "not wanting anything" that I was attempting to describe. It is often only after having wanted many things, getting them, and then realizing that they did not bring lasting happiness that one can come to the understanding that things, people, experiences, (anything external) can not bring lasting happiness. At such a time, one becomes more conscious of rising desires in their mind and can discard them before they turn into a passionate desire (which often ends in high degrees of mental suffering). Beyond this level, is when one has very few strong desires left in one's life - we no longer have ambitions (because we've tasted the results and it did not bring lasting happiness), we no longer desire to be physically attractive (because we've realized that this requires an excessive amount of effort and energy to keep up, and old age and wrinkles are inevitable and ultimately realize such a desire can not bring lasting happiness), etc. Beyond this level remain instinctual desires that can not be done away with easily because they are faster than thought. The desire for sex is a good example of this.

Eventually, it is possible to get to a [higher] state wherein nothing in the world is desired by you, and this is when a great mental peace and bliss can be experienced. Initially it comes and goes, but eventually it can become permanent. As you can see, such a disinterest in the world is in fact full of mental peace and at extreme ends of the 'lack of nothing' you described.

-L